A NOTE ON THE QUEST.

[MatWithOneT]

I may be about to upset some people or something but when has that stopped me before?

After chatting last night I think we need to make a firm decision on the main quest, side quests and characters.
I for one am in favour of declaring all (future) side quests within the main story non-cannon. From this people would still gain exp but any info, items or anything like that would not carry over.
I am also in favour of maybe mini stories instead, these could have new characters or the same ones but wouldn't affect the main story.
It just seems like with some of the side quests people are wanting them to have implications down the line on a story that they are a part of but are not in control of. We already can affect the story by our actions (as long is it is RPing in character blah be blah de blah) and if we have other stories this may solve that thing.
Any hoo thats me done!

[Sim]

I'm not sure what the benefit of not carrying over items would be. As for the rest, I think you're referring to Tyrax losing his eyes. Tyrax would have only lost his eyes for one session as he's now got enough XP to gain a merit to return them to their normal state. Tyrax would have been able to play normally anyway with the help of other players, and just make roles for listening and smelling in combat to make accurate attacks.

One thing I don't like is new characters being created all the time. I think the game would play much better if we all just had one character and just agreed to suffer the consequences of their actions. If anyone is willing to attack the throat of a giant beast, planting themselves right between the animals 4 primary weapons (arms) what do you expect to happen? There was always the cat of nine-tails that wasn't used, and the clearly marked weak spot on his back.

Any character that has an absolute affect on a quest should ALWAYS be an NPC in my opinion, not a player controlled character, as any character can die at any moment. Therefore anything that happens to any character, side quest or not, does not have any impact on the main quest, it only affects the players decisions in the game world. The WoD is dangerous and designed to kill you afterall. If Simavel lost a limb due to my own error, side quest or not, you wouldn't catch me writing up a new character sheet with exactly the same XP and skills saying 'This guy came out of nowhere to help out because Simavel's got a wooden leg so I'm scrapping him', I'd take the dice mods and attack the game from a new angle.

I thought a WoD chronicle is playing the life of our character through thick and thin, and taking on the responsibility of looking after that character and leaving their mark on the WoD world. If Your character picks up a weapon and gains XP in a random dungeon in Skyrim, would that XP and weapon have an impact on the effectiveness of the character to complete the main story? Of course it would. The same goes if you pick up a long lasting curse or disease. I don't see why WoD should be any different.

This is also where my dislike for players gaining the full XP when their characters are not in the story that gained them the XP. I could sit out until the final boss, not being in any danger of dieing or being beaten to a pulp, yet gain all the skills other people have almost died for. I also don't agree with the term 'side quest' as the life of a character is the life of a character. If I went to buy some milk from asda and got hit by a car and broke my leg, it would affect my ability to drive and get to work. Just because the act of going to asda in my spare time had nothing to do with going to work, doesn't mean that portion of my life has no impact on the other.

/rant

Btw, no side quest has been designed to have any implications further down the line. Both the monastery and the giant wolf were fully intended to be stand alone, any affect 'down the line' were only created by the outcome of player decisions in the game, which isn't the ST's fault. I didn't force Tyrax's blindness, nor did I force Cerise to pick up the ialdabaoth codex, not that the codex is going to be of any use to anyone at the moment. Needless to say it can be lobbed in a river at any time.

Spoiler:

The only long-standing implication that was described before the monastery quest was the memory loss (of unimportant events) and the possibility of a derangement (that was avoided thanks to Richard). The derangement was only going to be a low level obsessive compulsive disorder equal to making a list of things to do each day as the character was afraid they would forget. I'm pretty sure memory loss of events between the ages of 5-9 isn't going to affect anything going on at the moment.

[Alexis_Blaze]

i think gaining items from side quests in to the main story isnt a problem as long as they are only meelee things. like food or melee weapons and as far as i know i thinks that all they have been. i dont think gaining an item in a side quest which some how links to the main story should be allowed, like scrolls, items that unlock things etc that should stay in the main story but again i dont think that has happened any way. so its not a problem.

i do agree that if a side quest happens it should be your original character that takes place. you dont have to do the side quest if you know that your character will be worst for wear doing so. but i'm bias as quinn heals.

(my character wasnt really researched properly and was very broken but can join into battles better now) not relevent but i thought i would say that any way.

also about the XP i think if your not avaible to play and the story goes ahead. half XP should be given as its not fair on characters that have worked hard in a battle then suddenly we r all given equal amount of XP makes effort pointless.

i know i havent got to play much so i what i say is prb moot but i like a good rant.

[Tyrax]

Elisha using mikes phone to post as I forgot my log in. I can understand the character and Eco thing but I see both sides.
I just think the experience thing is slightly unfair for mike for instance as he gms mostly and would be fair behind us as he does the main quest line and its hard to do the gm and character plus enemies etc. and for ppl that arrive live and can't really join in like I did last week. and ill like tom or mat who can't come a lot cause if work. I understand though because of course yeah they aren't risking the character and that part isn't fair so I'm stuck in choice tbh. maybe half makes sense but full for story teller as that means they aren't put off from being one.

as for new characters I don't think they should be allowed in the main quest as it makes it unbalanced and if using a side character your main shouldnt get exp. but I don't see the harm in using for a side quest cause I would like to take part but tbh I wanted to try a different type of character and in diff worlds it makes no sense that your characters magically appear in did places when in the middle of a battle elsewhere. and. in my case I wanted a different character but couldn't because of Other ppls characters such as daves and Richards, and couldn't use my alternative because ppl would say over powered or w.e.

and yeah anything obtained side quest wise shouldn't be took over because its unbalanced then as they have no idea what's happening in main story so it makes it odd... but then that makes side quests pointless... no exp and no items...
so that's why I thought ppl were making the other characters so they would only be used in those cases.
I thought all gthe exp stuff and etc was agreed at the beginning anyways?

[Tyrax]

My opinion: <<< this is mike now btw>>>

What about xp for gms? As sim and Tyrax will very quickly become so weak they can't keep up.
What's the incentive to be a gm?
What about xp for tom for example as he can't make it often?

Items and exp for side quests I think personally they should go across as your char did said thing or got said item.

Multi chars I don't really care either way but my problem is that if you want to try a different style ( example echo is stealth based ...what happens if Matt wants to try a straight up fighter? Yeh he could learn to do that BUT it would be hard to explain why .

This is what I think people are after and effects :
Exp only gained if you participate. ( will make gaps in char strength )
Side quests matter and are cannon. (could cause issues like "i will use my lightsaber of epic godness I found in side quest X)
No secondary chars: ( players are "locked" into their original choice)

The above summary is a summary and not nessisarly what I think is best. I have added consequences to the rule summary so as to show effects that may not have been obvious .



BTW Tyrax lost his eyes due to an attack he knew was dangerous and would leave him quite defenceless but he did so to try to save the group... just to make sure Ryan doesn't get the wrong idea I support the decision in attacking Tyrax's eyes as that is what I would expect .

[Sim]

Elisha using mikes phone to post as I forgot my log in. I can understand the character and Eco thing but I see both sides.
I just think the experience thing is slightly unfair for mike for instance as he gms mostly and would be fair behind us as he does the main quest line and its hard to do the gm and character plus enemies etc. and for ppl that arrive live and can't really join in like I did last week. and ill like tom or mat who can't come a lot cause if work. I understand though because of course yeah they aren't risking the character and that part isn't fair so I'm stuck in choice tbh. maybe half makes sense but full for story teller as that means they aren't put off from being one.

as for new characters I don't think they should be allowed in the main quest as it makes it unbalanced and if using a side character your main shouldnt get exp. but I don't see the harm in using for a side quest cause I would like to take part but tbh I wanted to try a different type of character and in diff worlds it makes no sense that your characters magically appear in did places when in the middle of a battle elsewhere. and. in my case I wanted a different character but couldn't because of Other ppls characters such as daves and Richards, and couldn't use my alternative because ppl would say over powered or w.e.

and yeah anything obtained side quest wise shouldn't be took over because its unbalanced then as they have no idea what's happening in main story so it makes it odd... but then that makes side quests pointless... no exp and no items...
so that's why I thought ppl were making the other characters so they would only be used in those cases.
I thought all gthe exp stuff and etc was agreed at the beginning anyways?

I don't have any issue with dif characters turning up in side's or after a characters death, but as you said running 2 chars in the main is pretty borked as I could run 5 mages, one for every occasion gaining XP independently whether they are used or not. For GM's, there's nothing wrong with their characters gaining XP as it's pretty easy to come up with a one liner before the session starts saying they aren't their due to having to seek specialist medical treatment or they are sat somewhere reading a book instead. There was a covo ref XP gaining to begin with, and I did mention it at the time but the majority went the other way.

Jo's idea seems good to me, if you do sides, you get the XP for it if you are there to participate, and don't if you either aren't there or do not want to risk your char (or even gain a base 2 XP or something if a reasons given that they want to train at a camp instead). Side quests have always been a way to 'get ahead' or train in RPG's as they aren't necessary to complete the main story. If that happened, players that cannot attend can get full XP for the main story, gain a base 2 XP or something for sides and the players that risk themselves on endeavours they needn't partake in get ahead with a further 1 or 2 XP over the others. I'd see that as pretty reasonable.

I still don't understand the unbalanced items argument. So far I don't think such an event has occurred. If a GM considered an item or weapon is unbalanced, the weapon can always be lost during battle by falling out of the owners pocket without them realising, or hit with an enemy attack, or stolen during the night, or anything like that.

Edit: Also I would like to think any self respecting GM would consider the items worth in all eventualities for the sake of game balance. If anyone added in broken items, it would cause a lot a facepalms that are not good for anyone.

EDIT EDIT: Just to be clear, nothing in any of the above posts should be considered a dig at anyone, it's just my perception. The attack on the throat was entirely warranted as it did nearly kill the werewolf, and turned the wolfs focus in the intended direction. Perfect use of tactics tbh.

[MatWithOneT]

I didn't know that the exp thing was an issue!
I don't fully understand the idea of "barring" exp from those who can't attend as it isn't like I am planning on missing things to get xp just to level up and beat things. That is like using a cheat in a game to get all the best stuff then slaughter your way to the top, why would you do it? you are not playing the game. If people can't make it I think they should still get xp.
Multi characters
Ok so I guess I am the culpret for this due to my 2nd character? Again she most likly wont be used again it was just for that thing. There are too many of us as there is and more characters will just complicate things.
Side quests
I think that the side quests (fyi they are side quests as they are not part of the main quest and we aren't doing proper WoD and we are in a DnDesq world) shouldnt be part of the canon as (personaly) it seems to clutter up the main story, this is why we should just have other stories running at the same time (not with the same characters) as I can just see so many pile ons happening it becomes too much. also it seems werid to do side quests in this style of game as it is more role playing and with such a large group of individual characters and the fact we have a clear target, why would they deviate from the task at hand when the rewards offered are basicaly "what you want"?
So yeh basicaly i think xp for those who cant attend
stick to one character per story
side quests either out of canon or paralal stories.

[Sim]

I didn't know that the exp thing was an issue!
I don't fully understand the idea of "barring" exp from those who can't attend as it isn't like I am planning on missing things to get xp just to level up and beat things. That is like using a cheat in a game to get all the best stuff then slaughter your way to the top, why would you do it? you are not playing the game. If people can't make it I think they should still get xp.
Multi characters
Ok so I guess I am the culpret for this due to my 2nd character? Again she most likly wont be used again it was just for that thing. There are too many of us as there is and more characters will just complicate things.
Side quests
I think that the side quests (fyi they are side quests as they are not part of the main quest and we aren't doing proper WoD and we are in a DnDesq world) shouldnt be part of the canon as (personaly) it seems to clutter up the main story, this is why we should just have other stories running at the same time (not with the same characters) as I can just see so many pile ons happening it becomes too much. also it seems werid to do side quests in this style of game as it is more role playing and with such a large group of individual characters and the fact we have a clear target, why would they deviate from the task at hand when the rewards offered are basicaly "what you want"?
So yeh basicaly i think xp for those who cant attend
stick to one character per story
side quests either out of canon or paralal stories.

It was mikes hunter that I didnt gel with. As it transpired, a memory to do with the main story was lost during a side quest, something to do with a lost book. If things like that kept happening, it could break the game. Thats all the multi character quest related info talk was about. As I said above neither side quest is at all linked with the main quest, they were designed to be seperate and soley to show off other mechanics of the game we havnt experienced yet, such as fighting in the dark and having to deal with MtA beings that wouldnt otherwise appear. I guess I came accross more agro than I intended. I get grumpy when Im tired!

Id rather run a second chronicle than do side quests anyway, so im all up for that. If its ok with you lot I can host the modern day 'normal' wod that Ive been dieing to play. I think that would make everyone happy? That way we can leave everything with the current game as is and still be able to use new characters as well as hopefully play more often.

*snip*

[ace_skoot]

*snip*

my take:I think how were doing it is fine, but maybe just keep it to one character to each scenario, any new characters will have to be introduced too a new scenario. I say this basically because I think the main story gets a bit dilluted. I think as no one will be there 100% of the time XP has to be given in absense.

[Sim]

I'll still want to play and enjoy playing either way, it really isn't much of an issue, especially if we ditch side quests for another chronicle.

I guess I'm too used to computer rpg's

We aren't going to come to an agreement on the original post in here, so I'm locking the thread.

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